1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,320 You're listening to the inquiry on the BBC World Service with me, Helena Merriman. 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:09,280 Each week, one question, four expert witnesses and an answer. 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:17,120 It's a sunny morning in Texas. Meng Wang is walking to work, 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:21,040 wondering what she's going to find. She opens the door to her lab. 5 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:26,400 Inside, tens of thousands of worms wriggling around in different boxes. 6 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,360 She peers into one, then another, and slowly it dawns on her. 7 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:38,000 What she's seen could help cure the most debilitating condition known to us. 8 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:39,440 Aging. 9 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:47,120 Diseases related to aging kill 100,000 people every day, 10 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,400 but a growing number of scientists say it doesn't have to be this way. 11 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:55,440 Over the past few years, researchers have carried out remarkable experiments, 12 00:00:55,440 --> 00:01:00,000 challenging what we thought we knew about our lifespan. Billions of dollars are being spent 13 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:05,280 all over the world in efforts to extend our lives. In this week, we bring you some of the world's 14 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:10,560 leading researchers to tell you what they've found. You'll find out what Meng Wang discovered 15 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:16,640 with her worms, and hear how one scientist reverse the aging process in our cells, 16 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:21,760 as we answer a question that all of you have probably asked, how long can we live? 17 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,480 Part one. It's all in the teeth. 18 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:44,320 We are having a tremendous development in life expectancy. We have doubled our lifetime 19 00:01:44,320 --> 00:01:50,160 in a very short period, and we should really be happy that we were born right on this spot in history. 20 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,360 Our first expert witness, Paul Christensen. 21 00:01:53,520 --> 00:02:00,320 He worked as a doctor for many years, then one day decided he'd had enough of treating ill people. 22 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:05,760 He now runs the Danish Aging Research Centre, where he's trying to stop people getting ill in the first place. 23 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:13,840 We all know what aging looks like from the outside, but what does it actually do to our bodies? 24 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:22,160 Well, it's accumulation of damage from the molecular level that then spread to the cells and the 25 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:29,200 tissue and organs and to the whole organism. It's kind of all the hits that we get all the time 26 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:36,480 on the molecules, and then when we can't keep up with the repairing, then the aging starts. 27 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,680 And when does it all begin? When do we start to decline? 28 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,360 That is in the mid-30s this start. 29 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,560 Oh, yeah, so I'm 37, so it's begun for me. 30 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,240 Yeah, now the party starts. 31 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:49,600 Oh, thanks for the good news. 32 00:02:50,640 --> 00:02:51,600 Sorry. 33 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:56,880 And there's more bad news. Once we start to go downhill, we go downhill fast. 34 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:04,560 It's twice as dangerous being 42 compared to 35. Then again, it's twice as dangerous being 35 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:14,080 49 compared to 42 and so on. So your risk of death is increasing 11, 12 percent every year. 36 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:23,120 And then the mortality risk levels off around 100, 105, where the yearly risk of dying is about 50, 37 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:29,360 60 percent. So if you're really optimistic type, then you could say that it never get any worse 38 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:34,320 than 50, 50. And when you're thinking about these odds, there's a lot stacked against you. 39 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:40,000 When you age, as your molecules, tissues and organs get tired and damaged, 40 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:45,760 you're susceptible to a whole range of diseases. Cardiovascular disease, cancer, 41 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:54,960 rheumatism, Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, lung disease, all the major ones, 42 00:03:54,960 --> 00:04:02,960 as well as the more kind of non-specific, you know, people get more frail, less resilient. 43 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:08,880 Despite all that though, when you compare our lifespan with our ancestors, we're doing pretty well. 44 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:17,920 150 years ago, the life expectancy was around 40 in most countries. And now it's around 80 in most 45 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:24,720 countries in northern Europe. And why is that? Is that advances in medicine? I think that the main 46 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:31,600 factor is that people arrive at higher ages in better shape now. One easy thing to observe is, 47 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:37,200 for instance, teeth. You can see that teeth of elderly people are getting better and better. 48 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,680 And that makes a real difference, does it? Absolutely, you know, just imagine 49 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:46,640 quality of life, food, but it's also kind of shows that if the teeth are good, 50 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,720 there might be other thing in that body that's also arrive in better shape. 51 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:57,360 It's like a barometer of your general health. Yeah. And also one other barometer is that people 52 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:04,160 arrive at high ages with better cognitive functioning. When we do IQ tests on elderly people, 53 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:09,920 it's getting better and better for every decade. And why is it that we're arriving with better teeth, 54 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:16,640 better cognition? That's the whole package of better living condition, better schooling, 55 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:23,200 and what kind of work you have had. There's good reason to believe that this development will 56 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:28,160 continue. And so now people are living into their 90s and even their hundreds. 57 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:37,840 Take Jan Louise Carmel, a French woman who lived until she was 122, the oldest recorded age so far. 58 00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:45,120 But what's interesting is that she died in 1997. That's 20 years ago. We don't know anyone who's 59 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:54,000 lived longer than her. And that rate is a question. Is this rapid increase in our lifespan 60 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:59,120 beginning to level off? That has been one of the arguments. We are kind of as good a 61 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:04,560 sweet at. And what's the of you? Are we living as long as we can live for? No, I'm very skeptical. 62 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:11,280 I have a hard time imagining that we never in the future will invent anything that can help us 63 00:06:11,280 --> 00:06:19,840 when aging is taking its toll on our body. So I think it will continue. But continue until when? 64 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:28,640 Will we grow ever older? Well, do we have a natural cell by date? So far our advances in our lifespan 65 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:33,520 have been as a result of what you could call good old fashioned medicine. Cures for single 66 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:39,440 diseases that kill us off. There have been fewer advances in cures for the condition itself, old age. 67 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:44,320 But as you're about to find out, all that's beginning to change. 68 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:53,120 Part 2. 3D printing ourselves. 69 00:06:53,120 --> 00:07:05,920 We used to have this family dinner where everyone is sitting around the table. And I still often see 70 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:11,840 this discussion between my dad and uncles that they couldn't save this guy. That's Tohen Baumick, 71 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,040 a scientist and entrepreneur from a family of doctors in India. 72 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:21,920 And I used to ask my dad why can't you save somebody? And then he was like, because there was no more medicine. 73 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:28,560 And then I was like, okay, then I won't become a doctor, but I'll become somebody who makes the medicine. 74 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,640 And that's exactly what he did. 75 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:40,240 He took a PhD in structural biology and now runs a company which three years ago 76 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:46,080 made India's first artificial human liver tissue. It all began with a simple idea. 77 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:52,800 Dead by old age is most of the time by some kind of cardiac problem or some kind of problem with 78 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:58,560 your lung or liver or kidney like vital organ failures. In these cases, you can definitely give 79 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,920 the patient the second least of life if you have a functional organ. 80 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:06,160 The problem is there are more people in need of organs than donors to give them. 81 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:12,880 Elderly people all over the world are in long cues for new kidneys or hearts, but exact matches have 82 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:20,000 to be found. And in many cases, the person dies waiting. So Tohen Baumick thought, instead of holding 83 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:24,320 out for a donor organ, a liver for example, what if you could make one? 84 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:31,680 Let's say you need a liver and you have CT scan or you have MRI which shows exact 85 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:36,240 size and shape of your organ in the computer, right? Now you feed it into a bioprintor. 86 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:42,880 That 3D printer then uses the scan of your liver to print an artificial one in exactly the same size 87 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:49,760 and shape. Instead of using an ink cartridge though, it's ink is made up of protein and cells 88 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:55,920 and not just any cells, your cells. Then when you put it in the body, your body fails to recognise 89 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,880 that it has grown outside your body because it has the same signature. 90 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,560 Does that mean your body there's no chance that your body would reject it? 91 00:09:02,560 --> 00:09:08,240 Very little chance, let's say. All of this is a little way off, but not as far as you'd think. 92 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:14,000 They've already made an artificial piece of liver tissue. The next step is to scale it up, 93 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,080 making a miniature external liver. This will be something outside the body, 94 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:22,880 hopefully small enough so that it can be portable. So the patient doesn't have to sit in one 95 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:27,200 place when he or she is hooked to it but can move around with this. He thinks that's around 96 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:32,880 five years away. Then finally we'll get to the promised land, the point where we can make a 97 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:40,400 fully functioning liver that can be transplanted into a body. And how far would you say we are from that? 98 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:46,160 I would say to 10 years for the final step. And it's not just livers they're planning on making. 99 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:50,880 He says they can make kidneys, lungs and other organs too. 100 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:57,920 Oguns which we don't always associate with a longer life. So for example just in India, they're around 101 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:03,200 five to six million people suffer from corneal blindness and corneal blindness is something which can 102 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:10,800 happen as early as you're like four years old, six years old. And when we are talking about 103 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:16,160 developing country, being blind limits the number of years you're going to live. 104 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,920 In other words, it's not just about new livers and lungs. 105 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:26,720 Give a blind person in a developing country a corneal transplant and they'll probably live longer. 106 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:31,760 And so organ replacement might help one person in one country live till they're 60 107 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:37,680 and help someone in a different country live till they're 160. And when another organ fails, 108 00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:43,680 they can get that replaced too. Well life extension is definitely possible like if somebody is 109 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:49,200 in a fatal stage because of a liver disease then giving that person a fully functional liver 110 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,560 is expanding his life till the time some other organ feels. 111 00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:56,880 That's the point isn't it because if they've got a failing organ does that indicate that 112 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:01,760 perhaps they're coming to the end of a natural lifespan and there might be other issues in the 113 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:07,360 body that need fixing too? So it depends if you replace an organ which has been the primary cause 114 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:11,440 of the patient's death, that patient could have lived for twenty more years because maybe that person's 115 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:15,840 liver was failing but not the same way the brain or the heart maybe he had a perfectly working heart. 116 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,880 With this new technology then how long does to him bale make think we can live? 117 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:26,320 Well I would say the millennials like the people who are born after 1981 I believe they have a good 118 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:33,680 shot at life span of 135 years and you know what's more interesting if you actually live that long 119 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:35,520 you can keep pushing the boundary maybe. 120 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:45,280 Make it to 135 and who knows what other inventions will be around by then to see you through to 200. 121 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:52,800 And so with this tissue printing technology perhaps we can 3D print ourselves into old old age 122 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:59,200 replacing one organ after another our liver our kidney our eyes and our lungs but that will only ever 123 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:04,960 get us so far is the rest of our body that can't be replaced like our brain slowly withers. 124 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:11,520 That's why some researchers are looking beyond our individual body parts to something more fundamental. 125 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:20,160 Part 3 - The Secret of the Worms 126 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:34,320 So there's some personal inspiration from my family that's Professor Meng Wang. 127 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:43,440 My grandma passed away when she was 100 but she was a really healthy and active to the end of her life. 128 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:51,600 Watching her always make me wonder there is a secret about being long lived. 129 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:53,840 So Meng Wang decided she tried to find out. 130 00:12:53,840 --> 00:13:02,160 She's now a professor of molecular and human genetics at Baylor College of Medicine in the US 131 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:07,280 but she's been carrying out experiments into one of the most exciting new areas of medicine 132 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:08,480 our microbiome. 133 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:19,360 So those are the little microorganism living together with us actually all over our body 134 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:26,960 from the digestive track inside our body to the skin outside our body so they're everywhere. 135 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:31,920 You can't see it with a naked eye but our microbiome is all over and inside us. 136 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:38,560 Most of it is made up of bacteria but it also contains fungi, viruses and other microbes too. 137 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:44,320 In the past scientists haven't given it much attention but we now know it has a profound 138 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:45,920 effect on our body. 139 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:53,120 The studies show actually they are like additional organ to us because they can influence 140 00:13:53,120 --> 00:14:02,000 how well we behave and also how well we respond to different medications and sometimes they make us sick 141 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,480 but on the other hand they also play very important role to keep us healthy. 142 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:13,360 Meng Wang wanted to know whether our microbiome has an effect on how we age so she decided to do an 143 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:19,600 experiment and what she needed was an animal with a short lifespan. She chose a particular kind of worm. 144 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:24,720 They only live about two to three weeks so that makes them wonderful models. 145 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:26,480 Ah perfect subject. 146 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:26,720 Yeah. 147 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:35,840 She wanted to find out what would happen if you altered a worm's microbiome would it live longer? 148 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:42,800 So she chose one of the kinds of bacteria that lives inside a worm's gut, 149 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:48,720 tweaked its genes to make different varieties and then fed them to separate groups of worms. 150 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:58,320 A few weeks later she went to see the worms expecting them all to be dead now they'd reach the end of their lifespan. 151 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:06,640 I was so excited because when we find in few cases the animal are not that they are still alive 152 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:12,400 when we check them. I was jumping up down because it was totally unexpected. 153 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,240 And how long did some of the worms live for? 154 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,880 About 50% longer. 155 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:22,160 50% yeah that's extraordinary so you had most of the worms were what living for three weeks and 156 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,000 there were some that lived for what four and a half? Four and a half yes. 157 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,360 And was that much more than you would have expected? 158 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:35,120 Yes. I think scientists sometimes we do research is kind of like gambling. 159 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:43,040 So we have some crazy idea then you know we we do thigh away to test them but you never know 160 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:50,880 whether your idea is right or wrong and those moments when you find the result that's the best moment. 161 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:57,520 And so they went on to test other things. Would a different microbiome give worms not only a longer life 162 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,480 but a better quality of life in their final days? 163 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:06,480 So the way we do it we can look at how well they behave when they are older because worm 164 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:12,400 when they're getting older their physical activities decline so they move slower and also 165 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,280 become a little bit awkward and aided. 166 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:20,160 She's got a video of some of these elderly worms 167 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:28,480 and she's right you can tell they're old while younger worms wriggle energetically around them. 168 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:32,320 The older ones move slowly the skin sagging as they go. 169 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:40,880 I don't think they show wrinkles but you can tell their body structure is not as elegant as they used to be. 170 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:46,240 But the worms with the new microbiome not only wriggled around more quickly in their old age 171 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,560 but they were less susceptible to disease too. 172 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:57,760 Meng Wang is now carrying out tests on mice to see whether changing their microbiome extends their life 173 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:03,840 and so there's a chance that one day doctors might be able to prescribe pills which do the same 174 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:10,800 for us. Some my colleagues say okay you know I think people can live to 200, 300 years 175 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:16,640 or personally I think 100 for me is already a good number. 176 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,800 So how long can we live for? 177 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:27,360 We've heard about artificial organs that could get us to 135 and how a different microbiome could 178 00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:34,160 give us 50% more time on earth but both these inventions are about addressing the symptoms of aging 179 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:38,480 not the cause. What then if we could go straight to the source? 180 00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:43,200 Time for our final expert witness. 181 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:51,760 Part 4 Fighting Your Cell By Dit 182 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:58,400 You wouldn't believe the number of people I have had get in touch with me. 183 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:03,920 That's Lorna Harrys, professor of molecular genetics at the University of Exeter in the UK. 184 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,920 A scientist who's work on aging has got a lot of people excited. 185 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,360 Before now it's all been a bit of a holy grail actually in our field. 186 00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:15,120 Now people are beginning to realise that this is a possibility and they're wanting to get on the 187 00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:16,560 out. I think it's going to be huge. 188 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:23,200 Her work all begins with the building blocks of our bodies, our cells. 189 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,280 So basically your organs are made of different types of tissue, your tissues are made of different types 190 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:33,040 of cells. Now our cells get older, some cells in say your liver or your kidneys or whatever 191 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,640 will be dividing to replace some cells that are kind of dying or getting worn out. 192 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,760 Now the more times the cell divides the greater its chance of becoming what we would call 193 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:47,280 senescent. Senescence comes from the Latin word senescarri which means to grow old 194 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:51,760 and that's exactly what's happened to these cells. They've grown old and come to the end of their 195 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:57,760 life cycle. But instead of dying they hang around acting in a destructive manner. 196 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:02,160 They can actually communicate with the cells around them so a senescent cell will 197 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:06,240 basically throw out a bunch of chemicals which affect all of the cells around them. 198 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,400 So it's almost like the cell saying I'm an old cell and you guys have been around here about the same 199 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,240 sort of amount of time as I have. So you must be old too so you should be thinking about being senescent 200 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:19,760 as well. Wow so it's almost sort of contaminating them with age. Exactly so it's basically sending 201 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:24,880 out a message which can drive the cells around it into senescence. As we grow older, more and more 202 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,640 of our cells become senescent until our body is overwhelmed. 203 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:37,440 Not only do they make the cells around them age faster, these senescent cells stop functioning as 204 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:42,720 they should, which is thought to be one of the things that leads to diseases like dementia, cancer 205 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:50,560 and type 2 diabetes. So Professor Harrys wanted to know whether she could get these cells to stop 206 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:56,400 behaving like old cells and behave more like young ones. What happened there was I had a new researcher 207 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:02,880 in my lab and she was sort of finding her feet and we had some old cells and I had some chemicals. 208 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,840 And she suggested her new research that put some of these chemicals on these old skin cells and see 209 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:12,640 what happened. About a week after she came in with the tissue cells and showed it to me and when you 210 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:17,520 look through the microscope, what were you expecting to see? That they would still look like old cells 211 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:22,160 so they look kind of lacy under a microscope and we have a particular die that we can put on our 212 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:28,320 cell cultures that turns blue if they're senescent. So what I was expecting to see is that the cells 213 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,480 would be still blue and still looking old and actually what they weren't, they weren't blue and 214 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,120 they had gone back to looking more like young cells. 215 00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:39,600 Professor Harrys said, "No, no, you've got the wrong cells, these are young cells going to do it again 216 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:44,160 and she did and she did and she did it, I think." And then what happened? 217 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:48,800 Same thing again, she brought them back to me and still I wasn't convinced because we're naturally 218 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:53,760 quite suspicious scientists and you know, we're taught the basically throw rocks at your idea and if 219 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:58,400 it's still there then it's probably real. How many rocks did you throw at it? Oh, probably about nine. 220 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:03,600 She did it about nine times and finally I kind of looked at it and thought actually maybe you're 221 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:09,360 onto something here. She'd done something that no one thought possible. She'd effectively rejuvenate 222 00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:14,400 her old cells and turn them into young cells. And this is why Lawner Harrys is now getting phone calls 223 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:20,240 from scientists and investors from all over the world as the first experiment that's reversed aging 224 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:25,040 in human cells, they think her discovery could be the secret to a much longer life. 225 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:30,480 So when it comes to our lifespan, you'd think Lawner Harrys would be the most ambitious of all our 226 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:37,120 expert witnesses. Instead, as human beings I think we have a natural maximum lifespan. So actually, 227 00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:42,160 what I want this research to end up in is a new generation of anti-degenerative drugs. We're still 228 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:47,200 away off yet, but in the future for things like dementia and cardiovascular disease, what I'm hoping 229 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:52,320 is that this will allow us one treatment which will address several of those at once, so that people 230 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:58,480 who would have died early will then go on to live their natural, allotted lifespan. So how long can we live? 231 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:06,640 Well, we know the answer is at least 122. Someone's already got that far and from what we've heard, 232 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:14,080 that figure is likely to rise. With the discoveries of our expert witnesses alone, 233 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:20,400 one day we may be able to replace our damaged organs, take supplements that give us a useful microbiome 234 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:26,320 and stop our cells aging. How many years could all this add on? Well, if we go by taking 235 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:33,200 BalmEx prediction, if you're a millennial like me born in 1981, you should be able to get to 135, 236 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:39,440 and by the time we get there in 2116, who knows what else will be possible. 237 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:49,520 This inquiry was presented by me, Helena Merriman, and produced by Beth Seigar Fenton. The 238 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:54,800 researcher was Oliver Jones. It was mixed by James Beard and edited by Emma Rippen. Our production 239 00:22:54,800 --> 00:23:00,480 coordinator is Brenda Brown. Just before you go, I'm Jordan, one of the producers on the inquiry, 240 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:06,560 and I wanted to tell you about a brand new podcast we have. What would you do if you wanted to hide 241 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:13,040 right now? Maybe you'd get under the desk, get into a cupboard, or run into a forest wearing camouflage 242 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:18,400 colours. But what if you could change the colour and texture of your skin so you'd blend in with 243 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:24,560 your surroundings? Well, that's exactly what an octopus might do. And in this week's episode 244 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:30,080 of our brand new podcast, 30 animals that made us smarter, Patrick I.E will be exploring how the 245 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:36,400 octopus is super-par is helping humans make technological breakthroughs, from the design of toys and 246 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:42,800 textiles to life-saving military equipment. That's all in the podcast that explores how the 247 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:48,880 animal kingdom is inspiring human innovations. Just search for 30 animals that made us smarter wherever 248 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,040 you find this podcast.